Argul interview
Hello! Soledad & Orgullo arrives more than a decade after ARGUL was formed. Looking back, do you feel this album could only exist because of those years of patience, or were there moments when you wish it had been released much sooner?
Hello and thanks for the interview! I definitely wished it had been released much sooner. I’d say it’s something that should’ve seen the light many years ago. The time it took us to record and produce it is nothing but procrastination, but in some way I’m also happy that it came out the way it did.
The time it took, along with everything that happened along the way, just paved the road for it to be released under such a wonderful label, and gave us the opportunity to include a bonus track that features a little more the feel the band has achieved after all these years.
The album's title pairs two ideas that don't naturally seem to belong together. Solitude often suggests withdrawal, while pride implies standing tall. What does that tension represent for ARGUL?
The idea behind Solitude and Pride comes from the lyrics of Engendro, the Spanish word for spawn, the first song I composed. It came together very quickly, almost as if it had been waiting to burst out. I could say that this duality feels like something primitive that lives within all of us.
We are social beings, of course we are, but we are also alone, and we always will be.
That feeling is so raw and impending that it is often shunned, but it's not necessarily a bad thing.
Sometimes solitude brings inspiration and meaning; sometimes you can find joy and your own peace within the gloom that comes from within, and there shouldn't be any reason to be ashamed of that. Most of Argul's songs carry that meaning. I believe we should accept our darkness more often. Not everything has to be positive, bright, and kind all the time, and that’s ok…
Your early material leaned much closer to stoner rock, whereas this record embraces slower tempos and a far heavier emotional weight. Was there a particular song or period that made you realize ARGUL was becoming a different band altogether?
In fact, yes. If I had to choose one song, I’d say Animal Dog. I remember I started playing with this set of riffs that mixed thirds with octaves, resulting in a particular sound that, as soon as I heard it... It felt good. It felt right. It was like a combination of melancholy and sorrow with something evil, that somehow brought me joy. It made me happy, and it’s actually funny because somehow I also felt that it was a starting point going forward that defined the way I was going to play and compose. Not that everything was going to be like that, but in some way it would naturally follow that spectrum. That, and also the way I structured that song, so that almost no riff would repeat itself; you would only hear almost every riff once, and that would be it. Strangely, the song would still end up being around the 10-minute mark.
There's an interesting balance on the album between crushing heaviness and moments that feel almost meditative. Do you consciously think about dynamics while writing, or do those contrasts emerge naturally as the songs develop?
Sometimes I do think about dynamics, depending on the emotion I picture the song having.
Most of the time, songs are formed from many riffs that have been lurking in my head for days, months, or even years, and I just put them all together into this Frankenstein-ish thing that sometimes might work, and other times might not. Sometimes, some riffs just call for other riffs, and with that, the dynamics naturally appear as the right path to take.
Most of the lyrics are written in Spanish. Beyond simple familiarity, what does your native language allow you to express that English never could?
I wouldn’t say that one language allows me to express something the other does not, at least for me. At the beginning, I started to write in Spanish because I felt it that way. The songs were simpler in some way, and I guess I didn’t worry much about having to compose the lyrics that much; they just came out. Normally, they were about dreams I had, and I just transcribed those. Some others were about silly ideas and so on...
With time, I started to write in English because it allowed me to glue things between riffs and vocals in a smoother way, I think. But still, there are songs or riffs that somehow ask to be sung in Spanish. Sometimes Spanish has the right words for a song and sometimes English does. It’s something that just fits depending on what feels right I suppose.
Like Kamog, for example, it starts in English but ends in Spanish. That Spanish outro is something that just wouldn’t have been possible to do in English. I mean, I could’ve done it, but it wouldn’t have come out the same way. I guess, answering your question, it’s just a matter of how comfortable I feel when riffs and lyrics come together and play along.
Peru isn't usually the first country people associate with traditional doom metal, yet it has quietly produced remarkable heavy bands over the years. Has being somewhat removed from the larger European and North American scenes helped ARGUL develop its own identity?
We have still been influenced by them. We all somehow come from the same Sabbath, Purple, Zeppelin, Heep, Slayer school, but I don’t think that being out of that bigger scene you mention has given us our identity. I think our identity comes primarily from the nuances we all bring to Argul, from the musical backgrounds we each have. Same schools, but particular tastes.
We aren’t just all metalheads or stoners; we listen to a variety of genres besides just doom, stoner and metal, somehow that has carved its own path into the band’s particular sound and identity.
What also helped us form the identity we have, I don't know if it has to do with not being part of one of those bigger scenes, but more with being part of the smaller scene we have here in Lima. The scene here has always been underground. Of course, every city outside of Lima has its own bands, but for us, growing up here meant growing up alongside the bands that, at the time, were the "big bands" for us: Reino Ermitaño and Mazo.
For us, it's family. Marcos from Reino is my brother-in-law, and we grew up with him around the house. He was always showing us all kinds of music, and at the end of the day, that was a huge influence. He also had, and still has, his own rehearsal room, the same one where Reino used to rehearse and now is the same one we use to rehearse these days with Argul and Illwind. Mazo and many other bands have practiced there as well, and some have even recorded there, I think Reino and La Ira the Dios if I’m not wrong. Argul was born in that room back in 2013 or 2014, with me and Jose María just playing riffs and drums together.
So it's really just a combination of all those influences, and having the luck to grow up with these people, our family, our friends, these bands, and this underground scene. It was a small scene back then, not so tiny anymore, and now everybody knows everybody. Whenever you go to a bar or wherever, someone's always there. It's like a small underground town. I'd say that played a big part in making us who we are today.
The record draws from sources as distant as Black Sabbath, Camel, Genesis, and even Stravinsky. Are there elements of classical composition or progressive rock that influence your songwriting more than listeners might immediately recognize?
Yes. I love Camel, Genesis, Anthony Phillips, Renaissance, Beggars Opera, Babe Ruth, Alphataurus, Pulsar, and the list goes on... I love this side of music just as much as I love the heaviest doom. Without a doubt, this whole wave of classic progressive rock and '60s sounds has found its way into my playing and composing, whether I wanted it to or not.
This is something I also share with my brother Alonso, to whom I owe a great deal of these influences, I might say. As we grew up together, he introduced me to many bands in this genre, and eventually we ended up playing Doom together.
I can recognize these influences in some of my playing and soloing, the phrasing, the choice of notes, the dynamics, and so on. Those influences may not be as prominent on this album, but they're certainly something that are more distinctive on future releases, as they will include many more of those elements… So you might want to stay tuned.
You opened for Candlemass back in 2016, long before this debut album existed. Looking back on that night, did it reinforce your commitment to doom metal, or did it also make you question where ARGUL still needed to grow?
Looking back, we were very young, and it was really a whole lot to process. We were just very happy to be there. Back then, it really reinforced our commitment not only to doom metal, but also to ourselves, making us take everything much more seriously from then on, I would say.
We always knew, even back then, where the band needed to grow, and playing that night definitely reinforced that feeling; we've been committed to it ever since. So now that this album has come out, I would say it's definitely grown.
And yeah, it did help us. It was a blast, and it's something we're very proud of. It was a whole lot to process, to be honest. Back then, it didn't feel like it could ever become a reality to open for such a big band as Candlemass in a country where the doom scene wasn't nearly as big as it is today. Honestly, it was an honor to open for them. Candlemass was, and still is, awesome.
Many modern doom bands pursue either absolute minimalism or overwhelming density. Soledad & Orgullo seems more interested in movement and narrative than simply sustaining weight. Was that always the artistic goal?
I think it’s still a little bit of everything with a mix between whatever comes out of our heart and the way we decide to polish it: some drops of heaviness over here, some clean singing there, arpeggios over here, acoustic guitars there... and suddenly you have something with dynamics, or something without any. I really don't know, I don't think I really have a formula for the things we do
Still, I don't believe we ever aimed to sound like something specifically. We certainly came together to play doom, but along the way, some other sounds emerged, unexpected but well received.
And of course, if we have more of a "movement and narrative" focus in our sound, it's just the way things came out to be. Sometimes the riffs I write may sound sad or melancholic, other times obscure, and others just super heavy, power-chord-ish. Some may be quite complex, tell a story, while others are really simple.
Several members have histories in very different bands, from heavy rock to more extreme metal. When ideas enter the rehearsal room, how do you decide whether something truly belongs in ARGUL instead of another project?
I have far fewer problems thinking about that than you might imagine... Normally, the songwriting process involves me bringing an almost finished song to the band, and then we all do our jobs. Sometimes the song changes or evolves during rehearsals, which is a very rewarding process, I might say, and sometimes they just play along with what is already there.
The different musical backgrounds of the band members are not only not a problem when deciding what is or isn't right for Argul, but they have actually enriched the band's sound itself.
Several times, with my guitarist mindset, I've envisioned a bass line for a certain riff, and Jian has simply come up with a bass line so far removed from what I would have written that it genuinely surprises me, for good. It's not at all something I would have chosen, but we keep these contributions for the final product, and that is something that comes from the different backgrounds each of us have. When composing and rehearsing, the things each of us contributes are precise, and they work. They just fit together perfectly… Or they don’t.
There's a distinctly human quality to this album. It never feels theatrical or larger than life, even during its heaviest moments. Is emotional honesty more important to you than creating an epic atmosphere?
Yes. I’ve never wanted to burn my head thinking about things to the point where I’m creating something in particular, or for the listener. I never thought about "epicness" as such when composing. Of course, there is some epic atmosphere in what we do, many people have told us so, but it actually feels more like a byproduct of that emotional honesty you mention.
Songwriting comes out much better when it’s genuinely made from what you have in your heart. For instance, there are times when I go to sleep after a night out, and you know that feeling when you lie down in bed and can hear your own heartbeat through the pillow, right? In those moments, just before falling asleep, a melody suddenly appears in my head (of course), and it fits so perfectly with that pillowbeat. I start counting it out: "Okay, 3/4. The rhythm guitar does this, the vocals do that..." I just can't stop thinking about it, it keeps going around in circles, over and over again, so I have to record it, otherwise it won’t leave me be. It’s like a curse, a beautiful curse.
A few days later, I listen back to it, tweak it a little, add something here and there, and once I have a rough sketch of a song that's worth showing, I go to this friend of mine and say, "Hey, check out this new shit. Doesn't it make you happy?" And he goes, "This is the most sorrowful thing I've ever heard. THIS makes you happy?". THAT is the emotional honesty that really matters, and would be a great way to describe what we do.
There’s also this strange sense of realization when honesty plays an important part in what you’ve made, when things are genuine and don’t look for approval but somehow they work, they resonate.
I believe that's the point of art, isn't it? Especially now, when you can listen to a super catchy song made by AI that, at first, just sounds like the latest release from some popular band and you don't even realize it was actually made by AI. That's frightening.
But at the same time, whenever I hear that sincere, raw human emotion in things like Warning, Neurosis, YOB, Swans, or Nick Cave…I could say "I could live in hope”.
The album repeatedly gives the listener room to breathe instead of burying every moment beneath walls of distortion. Do you think silence and restraint are just as essential to doom metal as the riffs themselves?
I don't like talking about doom metal in such objective terms. I don't feel I'm someone who can judge or say what is or isn't right for it, or what is and isn't doom. It all depends on what you want to make, and what you feel comfortable with.
Nonetheless, I do believe that silence is just as essential as noise. I do believe in dynamics, and sometimes absolutes are necessary too. Just like waves, pulses, and chaos, everything has its rightful place in time. A song can be as mellow and delicate as it can be an unexpected crushing wave of sound that wakes you from the deepest dream. A deafening strike of doom.
Ah... Suddenly, I feel like listening to Monolord.
After spending more than ten years building toward this first full-length, do you finally feel you've introduced ARGUL to the world, or do you still see Soledad & Orgullo as only the beginning of what the band is capable of?
Well, the album was ready much, much earlier. I do feel exactly that. I feel like we’ve introduced Argul to the world. I feel nothing but eager to record and produce the rest. I also feel glad that people have connected with what they hear and I truly appreciate that.
Having said that, I don’t want to go the “perfectionist” way for so long or over-polishing things, and it wasn’t the case here, the songs on this album were already there, sitting around waiting to be recorded and then years to be mixed and mastered.
We're trying to make up for all that lost time when we could have recorded the songs and released them all at once, capturing the sound of that era, which I feel is also important. There's not much point in dragging something out if it will ultimately come out with a sound that wasn't there back then.
That's why we're recording the second album right away, which mostly consists of the band's earliest songs. We want to release everything as soon as possible but also as close to the sound we had back then; and we even have Argul III ready to be recorded too… we just need to put our shit together.
If someone who had never heard Latin American doom metal asked you why they should begin with Soledad & Orgullo, what would you hope they discover that they wouldn't find anywhere else?
Definitely a band that stays true to the experiences and feelings behind its songs, and a record that, in a way, stems directly from its closest influences, such as Reino Ermitaño. So rather than focusing on what sets us apart, I'd say this first release serves as a well-positioned gateway to several other Peruvian bands and, most of all, to everything that is yet to come from Argul.