Chadarnook interview

 Hello! You describe yourself as having taken a step back from the New Zealand metal scene and becoming more of an “in-house musician”, creating and releasing everything from home. Was that something you consciously chose, or did you simply reach a point where dealing with the scene became less interesting than being left alone with your own work?

I would say that there are multiple reasons. Firstly to give an idea of what New Zealand’s entire music scene is like, it is always the same people playing the same shows to the same crowd regardless of genre, jazz people hung around jazz people, metal around metal, indie around indie, etc. I was sick of essentially seeing the same band with a different name but no difference in sound.

Secondly in the NZ metal scene, it is harder than other countries to find musicians you want to jam with, NZ is small and Christchurch (where I am from and living) has a population around 400,000. Compare that to other countries and cities you can understand that it is harder to find people who are capable and harder to find people who are willing.

Thirdly, this ties into the second point which is that in the NZ metal scene, most of us only want to play Slam, Brutal or Tech Death. Where there are some bands that contradict that statement in NZ, the general consensus is Death or bust. I have no issues listening to these genres of Death Metal but I am more of a fan of symphonic based genres which the NZ metal scene is mostly not interested in playing.

Fourthly, since music and going out to gigs is a social thing and most of my friends are at home with their kids (I am 34) and the appeal is lost from that, gigs are more fun when you are with your mates getting pissed and having a good time. If you go by yourself, you look like an alcoholic.

Fifthly which is more related to musicians and bands is that trying to organise shows and be a band leader comes with its own disappointments. The amount of effort needed to organise stuff like this is taxing, especially between working full time and other responsibilities. So to be an in-house musician works better with my schedule and it is easier to organise myself than organize other people.

Also studios cost money, it is cheaper to learn how to use Logic Pro and record stuff at home.

You went from completing a postgraduate diploma in creative practice to having to figure out how to make money and function as a musician but also as a member of society. That sounds considerably less romantic than the usual “I followed my artistic vision” story. What did that period actually teach you about being a creative person when creativity also has to coexist with rent, work and ordinary life?

When I chose to do a postgraduate diploma at Ara Institute of Canterbury, I was in the final bachelor year for a bachelor of music so I was already studying in that field with no real plan. Getting an education was the real goal, I dropped out of high school at 17 at the end of year 12 (NCEA level 2) with not completing enough to get NCEA Level 1 (this is the equivalent of getting a high school diploma). The had nothing to do with my intelligence but rather my personal interest. I was never interested in education in my younger years but as I got older, I wanted to prove to myself that I am more capable than what people saw. I often act the goat in social settings but then I like saying I have a higher than usual qualification and it shuts some people up because they assume less of me.

Money was never my end goal when it came to my post graduate diploma, it was personal interest. I like music and the creative arts more than I like money. But now that I am finished, I am pursuing the dollar.

You mention good luck, both socially and financially, making the home studio possible. How much did having that studio change what you were able to do musically?

It is honestly the biggest change in my life when it comes to my music and how I can record and release it. Before I was able to record music at home, I was promoting the shit out of one of my singles (Forsake Thine Necromance) as I recorded that song at Ara a few years prior. After I was able to get the proper equipment for the job, I started working on stuff straight away.

What is interesting is that some of the songs I have released are songs that I have written many years prior to releasing, anywhere from 3 years to 10 years, I honestly do not have a clue as to when I started writing them.

As to how I could afford it, my work gave all of the employees in the kitchen/cafe a significant pay raise which came with backpay from a certain date which ended up giving me about 4 grand at one go.

You're doing the writing, recording, mixing, mastering and releasing yourself. At what point does being completely independent stop being freedom and start becoming a fucking workload?

One thing is that I do not have a schedule and I do not need to have things done by a certain time. Not feeling rushed is one reason I do not feel like making music is work. If I were doing all of those things but organising people and gigs than I would be thinking that this is fucking tedious.

You were involved in the New Zealand metal scene before stepping back from it. What did being part of that scene give you that you couldn't get from simply making music on your own?

Free beer, that’s about it.

Your first two albums are The Subjective Opinion of 2025 and Trapped in the Game. When you listen back to them now, do you hear a clear progression, or do they represent two quite different versions of what Chadarnook can be?

They come from different times but are honestly all over the place musically, as previously mentioned, some of the songs I have released were written before some of the other songs I have released. Just to clarify, the song Eternal Nightmare from Trapped in the Game, the music for that was written in 2017 (ish) and Ventus Ad Caelum from The Subjective Opinion was written in 2025.

Both albums are very different in sound, TSOo25 is definitely leaning more into the dark, gothic sound you would hear in other bands like Cradle of Filth or Dimmu Borgir where Trapped in the Game is more closely in sound to Nightwish or Sonata Arctica. There are just as many similarities though, changing time and key signatures being one of those things and using poorly sung vocal 😐

The phrase “The Subjective Opinion of 2025” is particularly interesting because it sounds almost deliberately temporary - as if the album is documenting one particular mental or social moment. Now that we're further away from 2025, does the record already feel different to you?

The funny thing is that the name of the album is a play on words that only my brain would do. Since I got my home studio set up and I was starting to record music and releasing singles, I thought it would be easier to have all of my songs in one spot, hence the album. It is not the best of 2025, it is not the worst of 2025, it is a subjective opinion which is what all music is.

I will say though, Forsake Thine Necromance, Ventus ad Caelum, Storm and Glass Heart of Mine are about in one shape or form betrayal, heartbreak, unrequited love or suicide. Mr Wendigo is based off of a children’s movie Dot and the Kangaroo which could tie into the feeling of abandonment. Masquerade is about how Christian Worship bands (Hillsong, Planetshakers, Jesus Culture) are corporate scumbags who only care about your money.

But to summarize how it makes me feel. I feel like the person who wrote it in 2025 is the same person today, all of the songs were written while looking into my past and seeing the person who I was then as opposed to who I am today.

And then you have Trapped in the Game. What exactly is the “game” you're talking about - something personal, social, artistic, financial, or something much larger?

It is actually more literal, all of the songs are about video games. Here is a quick list

The Battle of the 5th Fleet - Monster Hunter World

Time Kompression - Final Fantasy 8

Eternal Nightmare - Final Fantasy 15

Alice - Genshin Impact

Major Arcana - Persona 5

The White Witch - Ni no Kuni 

I always feel happy listening to this album, I do find myself singing these songs at home as they are more catchy than stuff I usually write.

Symphonic black metal can easily become overloaded with keyboards, orchestration and atmosphere until the actual black metal underneath disappears. When you're working alone, how do you decide where the line is between creating a huge atmosphere and simply putting too much shit into a song?

On the other hand, if you put very few symphonic elements in a black metal song, does it just become a black metal song with a string section?

I honestly refer to my music as symphonic black metal as a blanket term or for a lack of a better term. My first album definitely is more black metal but my second album is possibly more symphonic.

The disappointing answer is that I have no clear answer. I try to serve the song as opposed to trying to shoehorn needless shit in.

What does “symphonic” mean to you in practical terms? Are you thinking in terms of actual classical composition and orchestration, or is it more about creating a certain scale and atmosphere around black-metal structures?

The term ‘Symphonic’ in symphonic metal does not necessarily mean classical in terms of music theory and instrumentation, I honestly think half the time it does not mean symphonic. It usually means that you have a keyboard in the mix and it is playing atmospheric shit. So from that, the latter is probably more accurate.

This is crazy to say as well but classical theory and jazz theory have more similarities than differences. Paganini’s Caprice No. 24 has the famous II V I chord progression found in all jazz standards and Maroon 5’s Sunday Morning.

You released your own version of “Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy”. That's quite a jump from the usual black-metal cover choices. What attracted you to that piece specifically? And did you approach it as a serious reinterpretation or was there at least a little bit of “let's see how fucking wrong we can make this”?

I actually played that arrangement on violin for an assessment at Ara, I passed and violin is a hard instrument. I am interested in Baroque, Classical and Romantic music so covering something from Tchaikovsky is not unusual to me. Neo-classical is a fairly popular genre in the symphonic metal world, Dragon Guardian does a cover of a Bach violin concerto (Harmony of Death) and Dave Mustaine has covered Vivaldi’s four seasons in an orchestral setting.

I released my own version with guitar as the lead mostly because I could, no other reason. I would release another neo classical piece but I would have to choose, learn and record it which is hard enough.

Black Sabbath... That's a much more obvious connection to metal history. What did you learn from covering Sabbath that you wouldn't necessarily learn from writing another original Chadarnook song?

I wrote that arrangement after the Back to the Beginning concert with no intentions to release it, but then Ozzy died and it felt right to release it. I also have a tattoo of Ozzy on my neck which I got after his death.

Do you think musicians sometimes reveal more about themselves through the songs they choose to cover than through their own compositions?

Absolutely, there is liking a song but then there is trying to make someone else’s song your own. For example, I choose to cover Black Sabbath becauseI believe that it is the most important song in Black Sabbath. That song started it all but it was left out of the show for whatever reason so someone had to play it.

I am working on a cover right now for my next release but that is all I can say at this point.

You have a postgraduate background in creative practice, but you're also working inside a genre with a very strong history, aesthetic and set of unwritten rules. Does your training ever clash with the instincts of an underground metal musician?

Academia has more resources on the underground scene than it does the pop scene. The history of black metal fascinates music historians as it was a very anti mainstream movement. My main tutor for my post grad was a man with a doctorate in history, his final thesis was on rock n roll history which was also a anti mainstream genre at the time (or at least the black man’s rock n roll, everyone loved Pat Boone cause he was white and polite 😮).

For me, if a rule is unwritten, then that is more incentive for me not to follow it, especially in music, let me write what I wanna write with no holds bar.

A lot of modern musicians talk about “building a brand”, content, social media presence and audience engagement. You're doing almost the opposite - making music at home and releasing it directly. Is that a deliberate rejection of the modern musician-as-content-creator model, or do you simply have no interest in that side of the business?

Not at all, this is more common for the musician to bypass the middle man and go straight to the consumer. I am 34 now. When I was a teenager, Myspace and Bebo just came out and the youth were being exposed to music without having the input from a producer. Scary Kids Scaring Kids come to mind when I say this.

But to clarify something, I am on social media and I am part of that rat race, but what I reject from that is to do music promotion the same way as everyone else and not trying to turn myself into a basic meme, I would rather be an original clever meme. I’ve tried what everyone else does, it does not feel like me.

What does success actually look like for Chadarnook? A larger audience? Physical releases? Playing live? Being able to make a living from music? Or reaching a point where you can make exactly what you want without worrying about any of those things?

At this point, I would like to have a larger consistent audience listening to my music. It is free and there for listening. Having a demand for what I write would be the dream.

You have stepped back from being directly involved in the scene, but Chadarnook is still being released to the outside world. What, if anything, would tempt you to become more involved with the scene again?

Money.

Finally, if somebody discovers Chadarnook ten years from now and listens to these records without knowing anything about the circumstances in which they were made, what would you hope they hear that isn't obvious from the music itself?

I do not quite understand the question. But if someone did find my music ten years from now and they enjoyed it then that’s all I need.

https://chadarnook.bandcamp.com/album/trapped-in-the-game