Ember Guile interview
Hi! You originally started writing material for one album, and the process suddenly turned into two. What changed once the songs started accumulating?
MICHAEL: Hello Daniel and thanks for having us! Ummm, I don't think I really thought about it. I just started writing music for a new album and realized I had a lot written. So, I thought, let me see what songs work together to create the best story-line and flow. Put them together and presto! Actually, I was lacking a couple songs and Chad had some great song ideas he brought in. We worked together writing on those as well as writing on all of the other songs, creating two albums.
Did you realize you were writing in a broader musical language than you had initially intended?
MICHAEL: Not really. I always have LARGE ideas when I think about what I want a song to feel like.
So, no set goals, spoken or unspoken, and just write. Wayne, Chad and myself are like that with our instruments as well, except maybe Gavin with lyrics. He is obviously listening and writing a specific, intriguing story he has in mind. I believe we just can't help but sound like we do once we start recording and building.
“Parallel experiences” is a phrase you use several times when describing Ember Guile. What exactly is supposed to run parallel between the band’s stories and the listener’s own experience? Are you deliberately leaving space for the listener to project themselves into the songs, rather than spelling everything out?
GAVIN: No 'specific' parallel flows through any one song, other than what the listener can relate to. MICHAEL: I think it goes back to the poetic subject matter of the lyrics. Once the listener digs deep into the story-line, they will find situations that relate to a similar circumstance they find themselves in or have been in.
There’s an interesting combination in the music you describe: melancholy chord structures and choral harmonies on one side, but a “thunderous rhythm attack” and technically demanding guitar work on the other.
WAYNE: I think different bass tones are crucial in an audible sense for the thunderous rhythm. The bass does not need to be louder than anything else, nor buried in the mix to achieve this feeling. The proper tone and EQ should keep the bass in its own territory. It is the underlying [energy] within the song, keeping tempo with the drums. It delegates shifts and non-melodic parts. A solid bass tone should act as a concrete slab beneath a house. It is there to hold up the frame of the song.
Do you start writing from the emotional atmosphere or from the riff itself?
CHAD: I go back and forth, between starting from the riff, or building around the melody. Always searching for an emotional center or vibe to work around.
MICHAEL: When in writing mode, I tend to just keep a nylon string guitar in my hands and play around with notes, chords and/or melodic phrases or a riff until I find myself jumping up to run into the studio and record whatever it is. After recording that, I try to find what would naturally come next or build drums, keys, vocals on that or I might just stop and leave it until something else comes to me. With the songs we've written, I also tried to capture certain feelings and work on that to mold it into a song structure I like. I would take the feeling and search for chords that make it real and write around that. So, more from an emotional point of view even with the riffs. The vocals are usually brought in by Gavin. He and I might work to come up with the most memorable melodies, or aggressive parts in the studio and build harmonies when wanted / needed to make each section powerful.
WAYNE: I think different bass tones are crucial in an audible sense for the thunderous rhythm. The bass does not need to be louder than anything else, nor buried in the mix to achieve this feeling. The proper tone and EQ should keep the bass in its own territory. It is the underlying [energy] within the song, keeping tempo with the drums. It delegates shifts and non-melodic parts. A solid bass tone should act as a concrete slab beneath a house. It is there to hold up the frame of the song.
Chad’s guitar playing is described as moving from heavier shredding Metal into Jazz/Fusion. Where do you draw the line between technical playing that serves the composition and technical playing that simply demonstrates what a musician can do?
CHAD: When I first started playing, it was all about Metal and playing by ear. Then, a few years ago, I really wanted to expand my vocabulary. So, I started taking lessons based around theory and fell in love with Fusion. I’d released a couple of records when Michael and I got together. That's when I pivoted back to Metal. The line is interesting. You want to find a balance. With the Fusion albums, I wanted to do both, and felt like I achieved what I was aiming for. With this band, I just want to serve the songs without concern of all that.
MICHAEL: Chad's being honestly modest. When I hear his playing, I hear variations in unexpected places. He is very clever at allowing simple phrases to blend into the most dramatic shredding pieces while remaining song-oriented. He also writes harmonies that are not often thought of in our style of music, which are like subtle bursts of emotion. Adding more depth for the listener than first expected.
Jazz fusion is a pretty unusual ingredient to highlight when presenting a Metal band. What does that influence actually give Ember Guile that you couldn't get from the vocabulary of Metal alone?
CHAD: There's a lot of really talented guys who've done amazing things while approaching Metal from that direction. I think for us, especially with the upcoming album, it introduces interesting colors to the mix.
MICHAEL: I believe that's the beauty of Metal! It encompasses such a vast collection of styles from all over the World. It continually adds interesting aspects, whereas that idea finds itself limited within other genres of music. Metal is the best because of this freedom!
The opening apparently uses distorted harpsichord and organ before the main Metal assault kicks in. Why begin the album with those sounds? Were you trying to establish a specific period, atmosphere or psychological state before the guitars arrive?
MICHAEL: Great question! Yes to all three of those. I mean, that's what story-telling is, right? I didn't want this album to start off with the pounding (maybe the next one does). I wanted to quickly set the mood for the experience you're about to hear when you hit play, but I didn't want it to just be standard clean instruments. I love suspense of horror movies and so I wanted that sort of industrial dirt in there because the dirt is within different parts throughout the album. Texturing.
Gavin’s lyrics are described as “poetic”, but poetry can sometimes become so abstract that the emotional meaning gets lost. How important is clarity to you when you're writing lyrics?
GAVIN: Anything poetic is straight from the heart, sometimes unintended. The clarity factor is important, even though some of the songs can be taken differently – as long as its meaning hits home. Some things I try to leave obvious, maybe sneak a parable in others.
You say the songs are constructed to capture the listener’s “parallel experiences”. Does that mean the lyrics deliberately avoid being autobiographical, or are personal experiences simply disguised inside larger stories?
GAVIN: Few disguises, if any; in fact, a few historical happenings here and there are sifted through the lines. There's one or two that are deep.
There seems to be a strong theatrical streak in Ember Guile - organs, harpsichord, choral vocals, dramatic arrangements, soaring vocals. How much of the band is about creating a world or atmosphere rather than simply writing metal songs?
GAVIN: Something ambient/atmospheric may be one's own mental memoir – big sound / full power is mine. 'Metal therapy' divine.
CHAD: I think “world or atmosphere” is my absolute goal. We have chosen to give the World something a wider majority will enjoy and feel.
MICHAEL: See! That's why we work so well together. I tend to be deliberately dramatic in my writing style, but I love everything from Billy Squire's style to Judas Priest's straight power too! Which you will find on 'Ascendant' and even more on the next album release. I have always gravitated towards things like 'Diary Of A Madman', 'Edge Of Thorns', 'Screaming In Digital' or anything Crimson Glory, etc. This is why things, like you previously mentioned, come into play when we record. I think we capture both types of things in our arrangements, making them more intriguing and broaden the story-telling quality.
You formed in Pensacola, Florida, but the description of Ember Guile doesn't immediately suggest the stereotypical musical identity people might associate with that part of the US. Has your local environment actually influenced the band, or is Ember Guile deliberately disconnected from its geographical surroundings?
MICHAEL: I wouldn't say “deliberately”. There are some incredible bands in our area that cover the “Florida” vibe very well. Then, there are others you might have already heard of such as our friends Mindcage, Wynter and October Noir. I just find myself only listening to what my thoughts tell me is interesting when writing. Yes, we are from Pensacola, FL, but we are also not really that far from the
Tampa, FL area where amazing bands like Savatage, Crimson Glory and Kamelot have come from and we are closely related to that genre. So, Florida has some great and continued Metal history!
Maurizio Chiarello and Underground Symphony have now given you access to Worldwide Distribution. Coming from an underground American band, does that change the way you think about the music, or are you deliberately trying not to think about the potential audience while writing?
MICHAEL: I strongly believe what we naturally write is musically valid in the Power and Prog Metal genre with a slight twist and people are enjoying it quite a lot. Maurizio is a visionary and Underground Symphony Records has always been known for cultivating an incredible stable of the most talented bands and his belief that we deserve to be included on that roster is breathtaking. I mean, you've heard the big ones affiliated with Maurizio such as: Labyrinth, Shadows Of Steel and Great Master (just to name a few)! Great bands, great man, great Label!
You already have the material for the sophomore album underway. After spending so much time establishing what Ember Guile is, what is the one thing you absolutely don't want the second album to become?
MICHAEL: The sophomore album is competed musically. We are close to finalizing the layout, so it captures the mood of the music. We love putting together an entire package that makes people feel something when they listen [and] look through all of the pages. We get excited about such details. Remember being a kid discovering music for the first time, listening to the music while reading every lyric, songwriter, band members and production notes?! We think those are the things that allow people into our art. When I think about what we “don't” want the second album to become, I think it would be “expected”. Everyone who's heard the first album, 'Ascendant', might be expecting this one to be the same all around. It won't be a departure from what we have created, but it also includes quite a few memorable surprises naturally sprinkled in and I believe people are really going to dig it as much as, 'Ascendant'!
MICHAEL: Thank you so much, Daniel, for including us in Iron Backstage with some incredibly unique questions! You are great at what you do and we are honored to be a part of it.
emberguile@gmail.com