Dimension Of The Abandoned interview

Hello Rick! The press release makes it clear that Dimension Of The Abandoned was born directly from your departure from Niviane. Let’s start there: looking back now, was leaving the band an act of necessity, frustration, or liberation?

I THINK IT WAS A COMBINATION OF ALL THREE. I WAS FRUSTRATED WITH THE CREATIVE DIRECTION OF THE BAND, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE BUSINESS DECISIONS THAT WERE BEING MADE. SO OUT OF NECESSITY FOR MY OWN HAPPINESS AND WELL-BEING I FELT IT BEST THAT I LEAVE THE BAND. I DIDN’T COME TO THIS DECISION LIGHTLY. I CONTEMPLATED ALL MY OPTIONS AND WHETHER I REALLY WANTED TO LEAVE THE BAND THAT HAD TOOK UP THE MAJORITY OF MY FREE TIME FOR THE PAST SEVEN YEARS. THE BAND I HAD PUT ALL MY CREATIVE EFFORT AND BELIEF IN. THERE WAS A TRANSITION PHASE WHERE IT WAS ODD NOT BEING INVOLVED WITH THE BAND ANYMORE, BUT ONCE THAT HAD PASSED, I FELT A SENSE OF LIBERATION, KNOWING THAT I COULD PURSUE MY OWN CREATIVE INTERESTS IN THE WAY I WANTED.

You openly state that some of these songs were rejected in your previous band and that this project was partly about proving their worth. Be honest: does that still carry a sense of unfinished resentment?

IT DID AT FIRST. BUT ONCE I GOT TO WORK ON THE SONGS, REDOING AND REWORKING THEM TO FIT THE STYLE THAT I ENVISIONED IN MY MIND INSTEAD OF THE STYLE OF NIVIANE, ANY TYPES OF FEELINGS THAT I MAY HAVE STILL HAD ABOUT LEAVING THE BAND OR THE DIFFICULTIES THAT HAD HAPPENED TOWARDS THE END OF MY TIME WITH THE BAND SLOWLY FADED AWAY. I FOCUSED ON MOVING FORWARD & CONCENTRATING ON WHAT I WANTED TO CREATE.

If those songs had been accepted in Niviane, would Dimension Of The Abandoned even exist?

YES. I HAD ALREADY STARTED THE PROCESS OF SETTING UP DOTA AS A SIDE PROJECT. NIVIANE WAS SO BUSY WITH PLAYING SHOWS, WRITING, TOURING ETC., SO I PROBABLY WOULDN’T HAVE GOTTEN AROUND TO IT FOR QUITE SOME TIME. AS IT TURNS OUT, LEAVING NIVIANE REALLY KICKSTARTED THE PROJECT.

The phrase “without the restrictions of genre” appears often in your story, but every musician says that while still carrying obvious stylistic DNA. So where do you personally draw the line between freedom and lack of direction?

I REALLY DON’T THINK EVERY MUSICIAN SAYS THAT. THERE ARE A LOT OF METAL MUSICIANS THAT ARE VERY SPECIFIC TO THEIR GENRE. DEATH METAL ESPECIALLY. MUSICAL CREATIVE FREEDOM TO ME MEANS THAT I CAN WRITE ANYTHING I WANT NO MATTER WHAT TYPE OF SONG OR GENRE IT IS. I COULD WRITE A HAIR METAL SONG. OR AN ACOUSTIC SONG, WHICH I HAVE OF COURSE, AND IT’S ON THE ALBUM. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CREATIVE FREEDOM AND LACK OF DIRECTION FOR ME IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WANTING TO

INCORPORATE ALL YOUR INFLUENCES INTO THE SONGS YOU’RE WRITING VERSUS JUST TRYING THINGS OUT THAT YOU’RE NOT SURE OF. JUST HOPING YOU CAN HIT ON SOMETHING THAT MIGHT SOUND GOOD.

There’s a noticeable ambition here - progressive structures, blackened textures, classic heavy metal hooks. That combination can either create something rich or something overcrowded. Were there moments where you had to cut ideas because the songs were collapsing under their own weight?

IT’S ACTUALLY JUST THE OPPOSITE. I WAS USED TO WORKING IN THE FORMAT FOR MANY YEARS OF THE BANDS I WAS IN, WHERE IT WAS GUITARS, BASS, VOCALS & DRUMS. MAYBE KEYBOARDS EVERY NOW AND THEN. AS YOU CAN HEAR ON THE ALBUM, THERE ARE A LOT OF LAYERS TO THE MUSIC. DURING THE PRODUCTION PROCESS, I FELT THAT THE SONGS DIDN’T SOUND FULL ENOUGH. THEY STILL SOUNDED LIKE SOMETHING WAS LACKING. THAT’S WHEN I STARTED EXPERIMENTING WITH SYNTHS & ATMOSPHERICS, ADDING THOSE INTO THE SONGS TO MAKE THEM MORE LAYERED AND GIVE THEM MORE DEPTH.

You taught yourself production and mixing partly to gain total control. That’s admirable, but also dangerous - self-production can remove the external voice that tells you when something isn’t working. Did you ever miss that friction?

THAT IS TRUE, YOU DO WANT TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF COLLABORATION WITH OTHER PEOPLE TO GET THE MOST CREATIVELY OUT OF THE PROJECT, AS WELL AS TO MAKE SURE ALL THE ELEMENTS ARE COHESIVE AND WORKING TOGETHER PROPERLY. IN MY CASE, I HAD WORKED FOR SO LONG IN THE FORMAT WITH OTHER BAND MEMBERS THAT EVERYTHING NEEDED BE VOTED ON BY COMMITTEE AS TO WHAT WORKED AND WHAT DIDN’T AND THE PROCESS COULD REALLY GET DRAGGED OUT. SOMEONE’S IDEAS COULD GET THE AX OR YOU COULD BRING A FULL SONG TO THE BAND & BY THE TIME EVERYONE ELSE HAD PROVIDED THEIR INPUT THE SONG HAD TOTALLY CHANGED. IN THE CASE OF DOTA, I KNEW I WANTED TO BE THE ONE WHO HAD THE MOST CREATIVE CONTROL OF THE PROJECT. BLAKE AND RJ BOTH PROVIDED INPUT DURING THE MIXING PROCESS. THEY WERE FREE TO CREATE THEIR OWN PARTS AND I WOULD PROVIDE FEEDBACK ON WHETHER ANY CHANGES COULD BE MADE OR I FELT SOMETHING DIFFERENT MIGHT WORK BETTER, ETC. SO IT WASN’T A DICTATORSHIP. IT WAS A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT. IT’S JUST THAT I WAS THE CAPTAIN STEERING THE SHIP & MAKING THE EXECUTIVE DECISIONS.

There’s an irony here: you left a band to escape committee voting, but then brought in collaborators anyway. How do you stop Dimension Of The Abandoned from becoming the same thing you left behind?

IT WAS CLEAR TO THE OTHER GUYS THAT DOTA WAS MY BABY. I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS GOING TO SPEARHEAD THE PROJECT AND BASICALLY DO EVERYTHING WHEN IT CAME TO THE PRODUCTION OF THE ALBUM. THE OTHER GUYS WERE OK WITH THAT. BLAKE IS VERY BUSY WITH HIS OWN BAND OPHIDIAN MEMORY SO HE WAS FINE WITH JUST DOING THE CREATIVE ASPECT OF THE ALBUM, WRITING LYRICS & RECORDING VOCALS AND GUITAR SOLOS. SAME WITH RJ.

The story of finding Ophidian Memory through YouTube almost sounds absurdly modern. Twenty years ago this kind of collaboration would have happened through tape trading or letters. Do you think technology has improved underground discovery, or made it too easy?

I DON’T THINK IT’S MADE IT TOO EASY. IT’S EASY IN THE SENSE OF YOU HAVE MORE OPTIONS AND WAYS TO DISCOVER OTHER ARTISTS AND OTHER MUSICIANS. BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO FIND SOMEONE TO WORK WITH WHO YOU CAN GET ALONG WITH. SOMEONE WHO HAS COMMON GOALS & SHARED INFLUENCES AS WELL AS AN INTEREST IN WHAT YOU’RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE MUSICALLY AND CREATIVELY. THAT HASN’T CHANGED. IT’S STILL THE SAME WAY IT’S ALWAYS WORKED WHEN IT COMES TO TRYING TO FIND OTHER GUYS TO COLLABORATE WITH.

Blake, coming from your work in Ophidian Memory, what did you hear in Rick’s material that convinced you this was worth stepping into?

RICK CAME TO ME WITH THE TRACKS JOURNEY TO THE ETHEREAL AND ONYX TOWER, AND I WAS IN ON FIRST LISTEN. AFTER HEARING THE REST OF THE SONGS AND WHAT RICK WAS LOOKING FOR IN EACH ONE OF THEM, HE WAS ABLE TO

PUSH ME OUT OF MY COMFORT ZONE. IT WAS CHALLENGING TO EXPERIMENT WITH STYLES I WASN’T USED TO VOCALLY, AND I THANK RICK FOR PUSHING ME TO BE A MORE DYNAMIC VOCALIST. WITH THE SOLOS, I JUST TRIED TO CHANNEL THE ENERGY I GOT FROM THE SONGS, MELODIC TRADITIONAL HEAVY METAL. IT WAS A FUN CHANGE OF PACE FOR ME, AND WORKING ON DIFFERENT PROJECTS IS THE BEST WAY TO KEEP FROM BURNING OUT ON ONE THING.

The album title and the whole “twilight realm” imagery suggest liminality - not quite light, not quite dark. Is that symbolic of where the band itself exists musically?

I BELIEVE SO. THE ALBUM IS DENSELY LAYERED WITH ATMOSPHERE. THE SONGS ALSO HAVE A LOT OF DYNAMICS IN THEM, A STRONG INTERPLAY BETWEEN CLEAN PARTS AND HEAVY AGGRESSIVE PARTS. THIS IS WHAT I’VE ALWAYS TRIED TO ACHIEVE WHEN WRITING SONGS. I WRITE WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR IF I WERE LISTENING TO AN ALBUM. I ENJOY LISTENING TO EPIC MUSIC WITH A LOT OF PEAKS AND VALLEYS, A LOT OF CHANGES BETWEEN SUBDUED, CLEAN, MELODIC PARTS JUXTAPOSED WITH AGGRESSIVE HEAVY PARTS. HENCE, THAT IS WHAT I WRITE.

You call this “progressive melodic blackened heavy metal”, which is broad enough to mean almost anything. Let me challenge that: what makes this identity coherent rather than simply eclectic?

IT TOOK ME SOME TIME TO COME UP WITH A DESCRIPTION FOR DOTA‘S MUSIC. THIS WAS THE BEST DESCRIPTOR I COULD COME UP WITH TO DESCRIBE OUR STYLE. I THINK IT’S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD AND CORRECT. I THINK IF I HAD DESCRIBED US AS “EPIC ATMOSPHERIC BLACKENED MULTI DIMENSIONAL TRAVELING METAL” THAT MIGHT BE A BIT OVER THE TOP. HAHA.

The use of drum programming will inevitably divide some listeners. In metal, programmed drums still carry a stigma in certain circles. Why was that the right choice for this record?

THERE WERE A COUPLE REASONS FOR THIS. THE MAIN ONE WAS JUST FOR CREATIVE CONTROL AND EASE OF USE. SINCE I KNEW I WOULD BE MIXING THE ALBUM MYSELF, I STILL WOULD HAVE HAD TO CONTEND WITH MIXING LIVE DRUMS, WHICH IS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN DEALING WITH EZDRUMMER OR SUPERIOR DRUMMER, WHICH ARE BASICALLY PRE-MIXED. OF COURSE TO GET MIDI DRUMS INCORPORATED INTO A MIX YOU STILL HAVE TO MIX THEM SO THEY SOUND COHERENT AND GOOD IN YOUR PROJECT. BUT A LOT OF THE HEAVY LIFTING IS ALREADY DONE FOR YOU. YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED HOW MANY ALBUMS YOU’VE HEARD THAT ARE ACTUALLY USING MIDI DRUMS. NOWADAYS IT’S VERY COMMON.

There’s a strong emphasis in the promo on “songs that stand the test of time”. That’s a bold ambition. What, in your view, makes a metal song timeless?

I THINK A GOOD SONG IS A SONG THAT CAN BE APPRECIATED BY ANYONE, REGARDLESS OF STYLE. SOMETHING THAT HAS DEFINABLE & RELATABLE LYRICS, A GOOD FLOWING SONG STRUCTURE, CATCHY HOOKS AND MELODIES, & A MEMORABLE CHORUS. SOMETHING THAT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO ME AS A SONGWRITER IS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MUSICIANS CAN APPRECIATE AND FOLLOW ALONG WITH THE SONGS THAT I WRITE. I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS OVERLOOKED A LOT OF TIMES IN THE METAL WORLD. TOO OFTEN I HEAR SONGS FROM METAL BANDS THAT SOUND LIKE THEY’RE WRITTEN SPECIFICALLY FOR OTHER MUSICIANS, TO TRY TO IMPRESS WITH TECHNICAL ABILITY. THAT’S ALL FINE AND GOOD, AND IF YOU’RE INTO THAT TYPE OF THING, THAT’S COOL. I ENJOY LISTENING TO THAT STYLE & THOSE BANDS EVERY NOW AND THEN. I GUESS I PREFER SONGS THAT ARE WRITTEN WITH THE LISTENER IN MIND, WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO HEAR YOUR MUSIC ARE NOT MUSICIANS.

Sacramento isn’t exactly the first city people associate with blackened progressive metal. Has the local scene shaped you at all, or was this project always built outside of regional identity?

BEING LOCATED IN SACRAMENTO DOES NOT HAVE ANY BEARING ON THE STYLE OF DOTA. THE STYLE OF DOTA IS BASED ON MY INFLUENCES FROM THE TIME I WAS A LITTLE KID UP UNTIL THIS POINT TODAY. I’MORIGINALLY FROM MINNESOTA. I MOVED TO CALIFORNIA IN 2012. EVEN WHEN I PLAYED IN BANDS IN MINNESOTA, THE TYPES OF BANDS I WAS IN WERE NOT REALLY BASED ON WHAT WAS POPULAR OR TRENDY THERE AT THE TIME. I PLAYED IN SPEED METAL, DEATH METAL, HEAVY METAL, EVEN ROCK‘N’ROLL COVER BANDS THERE.

Name one criminally overlooked album, progressive, blackened, or otherwise, that directly fed into this record.

THERE WAS A BAND FROM SEATTLE IN THE LATE 1980S NAMED FIFTH ANGEL. THEY WERE A MELODIC, TRADITIONAL HEAVY METAL BAND. THEY HAD A FEW VIDEOS ON MTV, THEY DID ALL RIGHT, BUT NEVER REALLY HIT IT BIG. THEY WERE A BIG INFLUENCE FOR ME. WHEN BLAKE WAS WORKING OUT HIS SOLOS FOR THE ALBUM, I WOULD GIVE HIM FEEDBACK ON WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. I SENT HIM A COUPLE VIDEOS OF FIFTH ANGEL TO INSPIRE HIM AND GIVE HIM A FRAME OF REFERENCE FOR THE STYLE OF SOLOS I WANTED IN OUR SONGS. HE DID A GREAT JOB. THE SOLOS HE CAME UP WITH ARE VERY MELODIC & TELL A STORY. THEY FIT INTO THE SONGS PERFECTLY.

The artwork by Chris Cold is very much rooted in cosmic ruin and spiritual decay. Did the visual side come after the music, or was it already part of the concept from the beginning?

I FOUND THE ARTWORK EARLY ON, EVEN BEFORE PUTTING THE SONGS TOGETHER. IT CERTAINLY INFLUENCED THE FEEL & STRUCTURE OF THE MATERIAL. IT’S UNUSUAL BECAUSE MOST BANDS RECORD THEIR ALBUM, THEN DECIDE ON THE ALBUM ARTWORK AFTERWARDS. OUR PROCESS WAS THE OPPOSITE. I USED THE ARTWORK TO GIVE ME A VISUAL REFERENCE ON HOW THE SONGS SHOULD SOUND.

One thing I noticed in the press release is this insistence on integrity and“avoiding trends”. That sounds noble, but every era believes it’s avoiding trends while creating new ones. How do you know you’re outside the cycle rather than simply inside a different one?

THE BEST WAY I CAN ANSWER THAT IS THAT THE SONGS ON THE ALBUM ARE NOT WRITTEN WITH THE INTENT OF MARKETING TO ANY SPECIFIC GENRE OR SUB- GENRE OF METAL. THEY ARE MEANT AS MUSIC TO BE ENJOYED & EXPERIENCED PURELY AS ARTISTIC EXPRESSION.

The album is only six tracks. That’s unusually concise for something marketed as progressive. Was that deliberate restraint?

IT ACTUALLY WORKED OUT PERFECTLY BECAUSE IT’S THE PERFECT AMOUNT OF TIME FOR VINYL. USUALLY FOR VINYL YOU WANT TO HAVE A MAXIMUM OF 22 MINUTES PER SIDE. THE ALBUM IS SLIGHTLY OVER 40 MINUTES & I WANTED TO KEEP IT WITHIN THAT TIMEFRAME SO I COULD HAVE THE ALBUM PRESSED ON VINYL. IF I WASN’T GONNA DO VINYL, WE PROBABLY WOULD’VE HAD A COUPLE MORE SONGS ON THE ALBUM.

Dimension Of The Abandoned feels like both a fresh beginning and a response to the past. Five years from now, what would prove this project succeeded on its own terms - and not merely as the shadow of what came before?

DOTA IS ITS OWN THING. IT’S DIFFERENT THAN ALL THE BANDS OR PROJECTS I’VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH IN THE PAST. I WOULD SAY IT’S A CULMINATION OF ALL THE EXPERIENCE I’VE GAINED OVER THE YEARS FROM MY PREVIOUS BANDS & CHANNELED IT THROUGH MY INFLUENCES TO CREATE THE SONGS ON THIS ALBUM. METAL FANS AND LISTENERS WHO HAVE A LARGE REPERTOIRE WILL BE ABLE TO PICK OUT SOME OF THE INFLUENCES THAT ARE BEHIND THE SONGS ON THIS ALBUM. WE’VE GOTTEN A LOT OF POSITIVE FEEDBACK ON THE ALBUM AND I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYONE YET STATE THAT WE SOUND LIKE THIS BAND OR THAT BAND. I’MNOT CLAIMING THAT WE’VE REINVENTED THE WHEEL OR THAT WE ARE SO ORIGINAL THAT WERE COMPLETELY UNIQUE. I DO THINK WE’VE HIT ON A GOOD BALANCE OF SONGWRITING, ATMOSPHERE, AGGRESSION, AND MELODY WHICH ALLOWED US TO CREATE A KICK-ASS EPIC METAL ALBUM. THAT IN ITSELF I CONSIDER A SUCCESS.

https://dimensionoftheabandoned.bandcamp.com/

https://open.spotify.com/artist/0AIO4GwJqqQgGnjToy1nCH